April 12, 2024 - PBS NewsHour full episode

GEOFF BENNETT: Good evening.

I'm Geoff Bennett.

Amna Nawaz is on assignment.

On the "NewsHour" tonight: Israel prepares for a possible attack from Iran in retaliation for Israel's strike on Iran's consulate in Damascus.

A preview of former President Donald Trump's criminal hush money trial ahead of its start on Monday.

And Robert MacNeil, who co-founded and was a longtime co-anchor of the "NewsHour," has died.

(BREAK) GEOFF BENNETT: Welcome to the "NewsHour."

We begin with some news of our own tonight.

Robert MacNeil, co-founder and longtime co-anchor of this program, passed away earlier today at the age of 93.

MacNeil, known by friends and colleagues as Robin, co-founded "The MacNeil/Lehrer Report," the predecessor of the "PBS NewsHour," alongside the late Jim Lehrer, in 1975.

We will have a remembrance and a conversation about his life and many contributions later in the program.

But, first, as we know Robin would have insisted, the news.

Warning signs are flashing red throughout the Middle East and beyond tonight, as Israel and the U.S. await a possible Iranian response to the attack on its consulate last week in Damascus, Syria.

That Israeli airstrike killed one of Iran's senior military leaders, and the Islamic Republic has vowed vengeance.

Following it all is Nick Schifrin, who joins us now.

It's good to see you, Nick.

So how great is the concern, and what exactly are the U.S. and Israel bracing for?

NICK SCHIFRIN: A senior administration official tells me tonight that the concern is -- quote -- "very high."

U.S. and Israeli officials are preparing for strikes by Iran and Iran's proxies inside Israel.

And Iran, Geoff, has never attacked Israel with kinetic weapons before.

One U.S. official tells me the attack is likely to be -- quote -- "bigger than usual."

Another U.S. official tells me the timing of the attack could be -- quote -- "by the end of the weekend."

But I will say that another official from a different branch of government is telling me that the assessment is more that Iranian proxies by themselves would attack Israel or its assets in the region.

And so, clearly, there are ongoing assessments of what could happen.

But all the officials agree that the most likely scenario we're talking about is Iranian missiles or Iranian-made missiles and drones attacking inside Israel and/or attacks on Israel outside of Israel property.

And to show how seriously the U.S. is taking this, the U.S. Embassy in Israel yesterday announced that U.S. government employees and their families would be restricted from traveling outside of Jerusalem, Tel Aviv, or the southern city of Be'er Sheva.

Those are the places, by the way, that Israeli Iron Dome and missile defense are strongest.

And today, President Biden said an attack would be -- quote -- "sooner than later."

QUESTION: What is your message to Iran in this moment?

JOE BIDEN, President of the United States: Don't.

We are devoted to the defense of Israel.

We will support Israel.

We will help defend Israel.

And Iran will not succeed.

NICK SCHIFRIN: The show of U.S. military support came most visibly today from General Erik Kurilla, commander of U.S. Central Command.

You can see him there on the left.

He oversees all U.S. troops in the region.

He met with Israeli Defense Minister Yoav Gallant.

And Gallant said that the two of them discussed -- quote -- "readiness" for an Iranian attack against the state of Israel.

As for Iran, Geoff, it has made very clear it will respond to Israel's attack on Damascus, including a threat posted on the Web site of Supreme Leader Ali Khamenei.

AYATOLLAH ALI KHAMENEI, Supreme Leader of Iran (through translator): Attacking our consulate is like attacking our soil.

This is commonly agreed around the world.

The malicious regime has made a wrong move in this case.

It should be punished, and it will be punished.

(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE) NICK SCHIFRIN: You see the cheers there, Geoff.

It all adds up to a very tense moment in the region.

GEOFF BENNETT: Does the U.S., Nick, expect an attack on U.S. assets in the region?

NICK SCHIFRIN: The short answer is no.

Multiple U.S. officials tell me they do not expect an Iranian attack on U.S. troops in the region.

In the words of one official, they expect a -- quote -- "calibrated attack," not to draw the U.S. into war.

And a defense official tells me tonight the U.S. is preparing defenses and has moved additional military assets in the region, and they won't go into detail on what exactly the U.S. has moved.

But the U.S. and its allies are also emphasizing that they are trying their best to use diplomacy in this moment.

The U.S. has indirect channels with Iran, mostly through the Swiss Embassy in Tehran and the Iranian mission at the United Nations, and it can pass messages that way.

And British, German and French officials have all met with senior Iranian leaders just in the last few days.

And each of those countries' officials are saying to reporters here in Washington, but also in their capitals, that they have sent messages of restraint.

But the bottom line is, ever since the Damascus strike, U.S. and Israeli officials have said that the Iranian response is all but inevitable.

They have to respond, given that the targets that officials believe Israel killed were so senior in the Iranian Revolutionary Guard Corps.

It's just a question tonight, Geoff, of how far Iran goes and, of course, how Israel responds to what Iran does.

GEOFF BENNETT: Well, we will wait and we will watch.

Nick Schifrin, thanks to you for that great reporting.

NICK SCHIFRIN: Thank you.

GEOFF BENNETT: In the day's other headlines: House lawmakers have approved the reauthorization of the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act, or FISA, for two years.

Today's vote comes after an earlier version of the bill that called for a five-year extension failed in the House.

But the measure won't head to the Senate for approval just yet.

Opponents scheduled a reconsideration vote for next week.

The surveillance program is scheduled to expire on April 19.

The Biden administration has announced a new wave of student loan cancellations today.

They're forgiving $7.4 billion in debt for 277,000 more borrowers.

The administration has now provided loan relief to 4.3 million people, totaling more than $150 billion in aid.

Last year, the Supreme Court blocked the president's broader debt cancellation plan, saying he lacked the authority to do so without congressional approval.

Officials in Belgium are looking into whether Russia is meddling in upcoming European Parliament elections.

Authorities say that Russian agents in Brussels are promoting pro-Moscow candidates to try to undermine the E.U.

's support for Ukraine.

They have allegedly even tried to bribe some lawmakers.

Belgium's prime minister announced the probe today.

ALEXANDER DE CROO, Belgian Deputy Premier: Belgian intelligence services have confirmed the existence of pro-Russian interference networks with activities in several European countries and also here in Belgium.

The goal is very clear.

A weakened European support for Ukraine serves Russia on the battlefield.

GEOFF BENNETT: Russian authorities deny the accusations.

The Europe-wide elections are slated for June.

In Russia, authorities in the city of Orenburg ordered thousands more residents to evacuate today as floodwaters rise even higher.

The deluge started last week, when the Ural River burst through a dam.

The water level is more than six feet above what's deemed safe; 360 additional homes were flooded overnight.

Some residents there have come back to survey the damage.

DMITRY DRAGOSHANTSEV, Orenburg, Russia, Resident (through translator): This is how high the water level got over the last three days.

We never expected it to rise so high.

We lifted all the furniture up, the chairs, but, as you can see, it's all floating now.

Everything we have worked for is gone.

GEOFF BENNETT: In total, more than 120,000 people have been forced to evacuate their homes in Russia's Ural Mountains, Siberia and Kazakstan.

The National Weather Service has issued flood warnings for parts of the Northeast, as severe weather makes its way through the region.

Storms had already knocked out power for thousands in the Virginias and Southeastern New York.

Overnight, heavy rains brought flash floods to West Virginia, and, today, streets in Washington county, Pennsylvania, were underwater.

In Texas, one person has died and 13 others are injured after a driver intentionally drove a semitrailer truck into a public safety office.

The 18-wheeler left a hole in the side of the building in Brenham, Texas.

That's about 75 miles west of Houston.

The driver was taken into custody.

Authorities say the 42-year-old's renewal for a commercial driver's license had been rejected at the facility.

On Wall Street today, stocks closed sharply lower to end the week amid ongoing inflation worries.

The Dow Jones industrial average dropped 475 points to close below 38000.

The Nasdaq lost 267 points.

The S&P 500 gave back 75.

And still to come on the "NewsHour": David Brooks and Ruth Marcus weigh in on this week's political headlines; and we remember our co-founder and longtime co-anchor Robert MacNeil.

GEOFF BENNETT: On Monday, for the first time in American history, a former president will be tried in a court of law.

It follows the judge in Donald Trump's New York hush money trial again denying his request for a delay.

Mr. Trump is charged with 34 counts of falsifying business records to prevent news of an alleged extramarital affair from becoming public.

William Brangham has a preview of this complicated and historic case.

DONALD TRUMP, Former President of the United States (R) and Current U.S. Presidential Candidate: We will make America great again.

WILLIAM BRANGHAM: Eight years ago, Donald Trump, the real estate mogul, turned reality TV star, turned presidential candidate, was about to deliver a titanic political upset.

It was the fall of 2016, and despite trailing in the polls to former Secretary of State Hillary Clinton, the Republican nominee was all-confidence.

DONALD TRUMP: When we win on November 8, we are going to Washington, D.C., and we will drain the swamp.

(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE) WILLIAM BRANGHAM: But, a month before Election Day, his campaign was sent reeling when The Washington Post published this more than 10-year-old videotape.

DONALD TRUMP: I just start kissing them.

It's like a magnet.

Just kiss.

I don't even wait.

And when you're a star, they let you do it.

You can do anything.

BILLY BUSH, "Access Hollywood": Whatever you want.

DONALD TRUMP: Grab 'em by the (EXPLETIVE DELETED).

(LAUGHTER) DONALD TRUMP: You can do anything.

STEVE KORNACKI, NBC News National Political Correspondent: The story of the political world has been buzzing about all afternoon, making vulgar comments about women.

WILLIAM BRANGHAM: In full damage control mode, another lurking scandal suddenly seemed more ominous.

For several months, Stephanie Clifford, an adult film actress who goes by the name Stormy Daniels, had been trying unsuccessfully to sell her story of a one-time decade-old sexual liaison with Donald Trump.

But just a few weeks after the "Access Hollywood" tape came out, Trump's lawyer and fixer Michael Cohen used a shell company to pay Stormy Daniels $130,000 of Cohen's own money to stay quiet.

DONALD TRUMP: I, Donald John Trump... WILLIAM BRANGHAM: Then, when Trump became president, he repaid Michael Cohen with a series of checks that were categorized as legal fees.

The details of those transactions, what their purpose was, who knew about them, and how all the checks and invoices and ledgers were recorded, will be at the center of Trump's trial.

ALVIN BRAGG, Manhattan District Attorney: Allegations that someone lied again and again to protect their interests and evade the laws to which we are all held accountable.

WILLIAM BRANGHAM: Manhattan district attorney Alvin Bragg, a Democrat, has charged Donald Trump with 34 counts of fabricating financial records to conceal -- quote -- "damaging information from the voting public during the 2016 presidential election."

JERRY GOLDFEDER, Senior Counsel, Cozen O'Connor: Unfortunately, the way the media has presented it is, it's a hush money case, but that's not really what it is.

It's about falsifying business records.

WILLIAM BRANGHAM: Jerry Goldfeder is a senior partner at Cozen O'Connor and an expert in campaign law.

JERRY GOLDFEDER: Doing that, that is a crime, but it's only a misdemeanor.

It's a felony when falsifying business records is done for the purpose of concealing or committing another crime.

And that's what district attorney Alvin Bragg has charged, that Trump falsified all these business records because what he really wanted to do was to hide these facts to win the election.

WILLIAM BRANGHAM: And so even though he's not being charged for that subsequent, that secondary crime, that's all it takes to move it from a misdemeanor to a felony?

JERRY GOLDFEDER: That's exactly right.

WILLIAM BRANGHAM: While Bragg's indictment is full of examples of allegedly false retainer agreements and invoices and legal expenses, Bragg clearly wants this case seen as an attempt to subvert an election.

But the law on that is complicated.

RICK HASEN, UCLA School of Law: If in fact these payments to Daniels were in fact campaign-related and they weren't disclosed willfully, that could be a crime.

WILLIAM BRANGHAM: Rick Hasen is an election law scholar at UCLA Law School.

RICK HASEN: One big question here is whether these payments are campaign-related, as opposed to related to, say, Trump's personal life.

So, for example, if these payments were made solely so that he wouldn't face embarrassment with his family, then that wouldn't be campaign-related, just like if a candidate made a payment and bought a boat during the campaign, unrelated, that would you wouldn't have to disclose that.

WILLIAM BRANGHAM: Can those be one and the same?

Could Trump have been trying to stop him -- his wife getting upset about an alleged affair, and could it also be a campaign violation because he was trying to stop voters from finding out?

RICK HASEN: Sure.

And I think that the question would be a kind of a causation question.

Would he still have made these payments if he were not a candidate?

I think that's what we'd be asking.

WILLIAM BRANGHAM: Hasen points to the similar case of Democrat John Edwards, who was indicted for soliciting money to pay his mistress, Rielle Hunter, who had a child with him while he was running for president in 2008.

In court, Edwards argued the money was gifts from friends, not campaign donations, because they were meant to hide the affair from his cancer-stricken wife, Elizabeth, not from voters.

RICK HASEN: He was acquitted by a jury, with the finding that this was mostly about John Edwards' personal life, as opposed to being primarily campaign-related.

These can be tricky questions.

WILLIAM BRANGHAM: Another complication in this case is that the prosecution's key witness, the one who will testify about the origin of those payments, how they were accounted for, and who knew what, is Michael Cohen.

JESSICA ROTH, Yeshiva University Cardozo School of Law: Michael Cohen is a very problematic witness for the prosecution in this case.

WILLIAM BRANGHAM: Jessica Roth teaches law at Cardozo Law School in New York City, with expertise in white-collar crime.

JESSICA ROTH: First, he has pled guilty to crimes that involve deception and deceit, including tax fraud, bank fraud, and lying to Congress.

And those crimes go to his truthfulness as a witness.

Secondly, he's been inconsistent in terms of what he has said about Trump's involvement in this scheme.

He previously, before he decided to turn against the former president, said that Trump was uninvolved in the payments to Stormy Daniels.

And then, finally, he is a biased witness in the sense that it's quite clear and he's been quite explicit about the fact that he harbors significant animosity toward the former president.

They were once close.

They are no longer.

And so, the defense, I think, will be able to point to that bias and suggest to the jury that that it is coloring Cohen's testimony.

WILLIAM BRANGHAM: Jury selection starts Monday.

Potential jurors will be questioned about their political allegiances, knowledge of the case, and whether they're able to render fair judgment in this historic, first-of-its-kind trial.

For the "PBS NewsHour," I'm William Brangham.

GEOFF BENNETT: Sadly, tonight, we remember our co-founder and longtime co-anchor Robert MacNeil.

His partnership with his close friend Jim Lehrer, who died in 2020, led to the creation of this program you're watching today.

MacNeil died early this morning at the age of 93.

Jeffrey Brown looks back at his life and many contributions.

ROBERT MACNEIL, Co-Founder and Former Anchor, "PBS NewsHour": What actions or deeds are you prepared to make to improve relations between Cuba and the United States?

JEFFREY BROWN: Robert MacNeil had a knack for being where the action was.

He covered major stories around the world and titled his 1982 memoir "The Right Place at the Right Time."

ROBERT MACNEIL: I am a wordsmith.

That is my trade is using words, either writing them or speaking them.

JEFFREY BROWN: He was lifelong lover of language, literature and the arts, who called himself, in a later memoir, "Wordstruck."

And he was the visionary and driving force in the creation of the institution that, with Jim Lehrer, became the "NewsHour."

JIM LEHRER, Co-Founder and Former Anchor, "PBS NewsHour": First, tell the story about how all this happened.

JEFFREY BROWN: In 2000, he described their approach this way: ROBERT MACNEIL: Fundamental fairness and objectivity, and also the idea that the American public is smarter than they're often given credit for on television, and they don't all need things in little bite-sized, candy-sized McNuggets of news.

How could we add a kind of respect for complexity to the news that was already there?

And, really, that's how our concept was born.

JEFFREY BROWN: Robert MacNeil, known to his friends as Robin, was born in Montreal and raised in Halifax, Nova Scotia.

His Canadian roots would remain important to him throughout his life.

And he spent part of his summers at a home by the sea.

That love of the sea came from his parents, his father, Robert, a lieutenant commander in the Royal Canadian Navy during World War II and later a Canadian Foreign Service officer, his mother, Margaret, who also instilled in him his love of poetry and language.

He set out first to be an actor, but after graduating from Carleton University in Ottawa, turned to journalism.

He worked for Reuters and NBC News, first in London, later based in Washington.

He covered the assassination of John F. Kennedy in Dallas, even reporting live by phone from inside the Texas School Book Depository, where he may have run into Lee Harvey Oswald.

ROBERT MACNEIL: I heard that this guy called Oswald had been arrested who worked at the book depository.

And I said, isn't that odd?

That's the building I went into.

God, he must have been coming out about the time I went in.

JEFFREY BROWN: For NBC and later the BBC, he would cover a wide range of stories both abroad and at home, here in 1963 on "Meet the Press" talking with civil rights leaders Martin Luther King Jr. and Roy Wilkins.

Robins connection to PBS began in 1971, when he was hired to co-anchor NPACT, the National Public Affairs Center for Television, at the time, public broadcasting's unit in Washington responsible for news-related programming.

ROBERT MACNEIL: Butterfield revealed that all of President Nixon's conversations in his two White House offices have been tape recorded for the past two years.

ANNOUNCER: From Washington... JEFFREY BROWN: The breakthrough for Robin and the future of news on PBS came with the 1973 gavel-to-gavel prime-time coverage of the Senate Watergate hearings.

ROBERT MACNEIL: So, the ultimate question, how high do the scandals reach and was President Nixon himself involved?

JEFFREY BROWN: It was here that MacNeil was first teamed up with Lehrer, Jim Lehrer.

The two would also rebroadcast the hearings, with analysis, late into the night, some 250 hours in all.

I spoke with Robin and Jim on the 40th anniversary of the hearings.

ROBERT MACNEIL: Some of these things came out quite unexpectedly, in a very casual, almost offhand manner.

Everything is underlined nowadays.

Everything has arrows pointing at it.

This is going to be a great day today, and we are likely to hear -- we didn't have any of that kind of buildup.

It's just the hearings spoke for themselves.

JEFFREY BROWN: The success of the coverage and the chemistry of the team led to the creation in 1975 of "The Robert MacNeil Report," with Jim Lehrer first as its Washington correspondent, and soon a full partner in "The MacNeil/Lehrer Report."

In 2016, Robin and Jim looked back at their beginnings.

ROBERT MACNEIL: Many people in public television had thought we should be doing sophisticated entertainment and education and culture, and not journalism, not public affairs, because that would cause controversy and everything.

But our coverage of the Senate Watergate hearings, which clearly were a turning point in this country in all kinds of ways, got more and more people suddenly watching their public television stations and sending money to them.

That turned people's heads around in public television, and people began saying, well, you have become a team.

You should do a daily show.

JEFFREY BROWN: The transition to a full hour, "The MacNeil/Lehrer NewsHour," came in 1983.

It was a bold move, but very much in step with what Robin and Jim saw themselves doing from the beginning.

ROBERT MACNEIL: We ended up as an alternative.

And given the dozens of channels now that are doing something called news, from the serious to the comic, this is the one that has stayed absolutely gimmick-free, and, therefore, its uniqueness is more apparent now, I think, than it was when we started 30 years ago.

JEFFREY BROWN: The hourlong program became noted for its civil tone and the depth of its coverage.

ROBERT MACNEIL: Who are you afraid of in the region?

JEFFREY BROWN: Through the years, Robin conducted interviews with numerous world leaders.

ROBERT MACNEIL: I would like to grope a little further.

MARGARET THATCHER, British Prime Minister: Oh, grope away.

JEFFREY BROWN: At home, he explored a wide array of issues of the day.

ROBERT MACNEIL: We lead tonight with a look at teenagers and the AIDS epidemic.

Still to come on the "NewsHour": what's ahead in Bosnia; and rethinking affirmative action JEFFREY BROWN: And Robin insisted on the importance of including the arts in the "NewsHour"'s reporting.

He regularly talked with writers and other artists in this country and abroad.

The MacNeil-Lehrer team gained honors, viewers, and the attention of cartoonists.

A 1981 "Doonesbury" cartoon had Robin saying: "I'll be asking smooth, urbane questions from New York.

Jim Lehrer will handle the earnest, plainspoken questions from Washington -- Jim."

And "The New Yorker" poked fun at the way the two were occasionally mixed up by viewers.

"I never knew who was who until the other one left."

ROBERT MACNEIL: A lot of people think there's a MacLehrer out there.

But, anyway... BIG BIRD, "Sesame Street": Hi there, Mr. McNulty.

ROBERT MACNEIL: That's MacNeil.

BIG BIRD: Oh, sorry.

JEFFREY BROWN: The pair also enjoyed being part of the public television family, including the gang on "Sesame Street," which Robin visited to interview a certain well-known Grouch.

ROBERT MACNEIL: Our cameras are on "Sesame Street" where Oscar the Grouch is ready, willing and crazy to talk to us.

I see that you are in the ice cream business.

OSCAR THE GROUCH, "Sesame Street": Oh, did you figure that out all by yourself, or did Lehrer help you?

(LAUGHTER) JEFFREY BROWN: Even while co-anchoring the nightly program, Robin took on other projects, especially focused on his passion for language.

His 1986 round-the-world nine-part series "The Story of English" broadcast on PBS and the BBC explored the history and development of the language.

ROBERT MACNEIL: We are setting out on a journey to see what is happening to English.

JEFFREY BROWN: Later came a sequel on the richness of language in this country, "Do You Speak American?"

He and I talked about it in 2005.

ROBERT MACNEIL: There is nothing more enjoyable than going around the country and just talking to people.

I have always been fascinated by how differently people talk and the humor in that and the sense of personality that comes from that and the sense of local identity.

So it was really fun.

JEFFREY BROWN: He was also pursuing his own writing, nonfiction first.

But, in 1995 he decided to step away from daily journalism to focus on writing fiction and to work on other projects.

His first novel, "Burden of Desire," followed the impact of the famous World War I explosion in Halifax Harbor on the lives of his fictional characters.

Other novels would follow.

As Robin made his last appearance in the anchor chair, his longtime partner and close friend had this to say.

JIM LEHRER: He's leaving permanent tracks along the way he traveled and worked and created.

They are tracks of courage to do what he knew to be right and to actually do it right, and to do it with grace and class and with good humor.

(WHISTLING) JIM LEHRER: Hey, Robin.

ROBERT MACNEIL: I guess that is it.

JIM LEHRER: Yes.

Hey, good night.

JEFFREY BROWN: Robin remained involved with the "NewsHour."

He and Jim headed MacNeil/Lehrer Productions, which owned the program until 2014.

And in addition to writing, he pursued other projects.

Continuing his deep connection to the arts, he served as chairman of the MacDowell Artist Colony in New Hampshire for 17 years.

He and I spoke there in 2007 during MacDowell's centennial celebration.

ROBERT MACNEIL: The real importance of art is that it is the greatest expression of American ideal of freedom.

Artists are intellectually and creatively freer than anybody.

JEFFREY BROWN: And your sense is that that understanding of the role of art as expressing American freedom has been lost, diminished?

ROBERT MACNEIL: I don't know whether it is seen as acutely in the public consciousness.

Winston Churchill said back in the late '40s, the empires of the future are going to be empires of the mind.

And so much of what this country, the face that this country presents to the world is the face that expresses its ideas and its ideals.

JEFFREY BROWN: He also continued to make documentaries, including the 2007 PBS series "America at a Crossroads" about the war on terror and a 2011 series for the "NewsHour" titled "Autism Now," a very personal project that included the story of his grandson, Nick.

In 1997, Robin became an American citizen and wrote of the love he'd come to feel for his adopted land in the last of his three memoirs, "Looking for My Country."

He spoke of it in 2003 on C-SPAN.

ROBERT MACNEIL: All the years I was becoming embedded, so to speak, in this country, literally and figuratively, I -- and living through all the traumas of America, both personally with -- alongside Americans and covering them as a journalist, there was, in my being, a disconnect between the country I inhabited and the country that inhabited me.

I was a man with a nationality, but without a psychic country, so to speak.

JEFFREY BROWN: He was a fellow of the American Academy of Arts and Sciences and gained many honors over the years, including, with Jim, induction into the Television Academy Hall of Fame in 1999.

ROBERT MACNEIL: We demonstrated that we could do it in a different and more comprehensive and analytical way, and, suddenly, the argument had been won over whether there was a role for public broadcasting in this area.

JEFFREY BROWN: Robert MacNeil is remembered by those of us who worked with him with respect, gratitude, and love.

He was an extraordinary man who helped guide millions through extraordinary times with his intelligent, passionate, and humane journalism.

He had this to say when he signed off from the "NewsHour" in 1995.

ROBERT MACNEIL: ...

I could be proud of when I went home every night.

But that applies equally to our viewers.

Without you, no program.

There are now some five million of you a night, and you express a loyalty to this program of a quality I have never experienced anywhere else.

Thank you for understanding what we do.

You will find all the same values there on Monday night and in the years ahead.

Thanks, and good night.

GEOFF BENNETT: Robert MacNeil was married for 30 years to Donna MacNeil, who died in 2015.

He had four children, Cathy, Ian, Alison and Will, and five grandchildren.

Joining us now to reflect on his life are Judy Woodruff, Jeffrey Brown, and Linda Winslow, former executive producer of this program.

They all worked with Robin over many years.

First, my sympathies to each of you on the loss of your dear friend.

Judy, I know Robin was for you not just a treasured colleague.

He was also an inspiration.

In what ways?

JUDY WOODRUFF: He was, Geoff.

And I have to say, I'm heartbroken, as everyone is today who knew Robin.

He was not only one of the most important mentors in my life.

He was a dear friend.

I talked to his son Ian today, who said that right up until the end of his life, Robin was following the news.

He said he insisted on talking about what was in the news literally right up until the very last day he was alive.

And that was the consummate newsman.

That's who Robin was.

He's the reason I joined the "NewsHour" when he and Jim expanded it, made it the "NewsHour" in 1983.

They had this amazing chemistry.

They were not only extraordinary journalists.

They had this kind of magic between the two of them.

And I can tell you that it was so much so that when, just a few months into the "NewsHour" -- and I was still getting my feet wet -- Jim had a heart attack, and I was asked to fill in for just a few months, and I could not have done it without Robin.

Robin gave me the confidence to sit at the desk and keep going.

And so, yes, he was a mentor and an inspiration the entire -- for his entire life.

GEOFF BENNETT: Jeff, how did Robin influence you as a journalist and leave a real imprint on your work?

JEFFREY BROWN: Well, profoundly, Geoff.

I have been -- like Judy and Linda, I'm sure, I have been hearing from colleagues all day long who recall stories and the gratitude that we all feel.

For me, it's simple, but profound.

I mean, he was the exemplar.

He was the model.

I met him when I was young.

And as you often are when you're young, you're trying to figure out what you want to do.

And in this case, what kind of journalist could I be and what kind of journalism could I do?

And there was Robin.

I distinctly remember -- and this goes back more than 30 years -- sitting at the table with him for our editorial meeting and thinking to myself, where else would I want to be but listening to him talk about the news, think about what we would be doing that night.

He had the most capacious mind.

He was interested in everything, so world affairs, literature.

And he brought all of that to bear on the news.

And it had an incredible impact on all of us.

Look, I mean, you're lucky in life to know a few people that have that kind of effect.

I can say, without any question, I would not be sitting here today without the influence of Robin MacNeil.

I dearly admired and loved him.

GEOFF BENNETT: Linda, does that resonate with you?

LINDA WINSLOW, Former Executive Producer, "PBS NewsHour": Absolutely.

It's the same man.

We all knew the same man.

He was a mentor and a colleague, but he was also just a great, fun human being to be around.

And I remember a trip we took.

We were covering the Reagan-Gorbachev summit in Moscow in '88.

And there was an awful lot of interviewing to be done about submarine-launched ballistic missiles.

But he insisted at one point that we were going to go out and interview Yevtushenko, the Soviet-Russian poet, because that's the kind of guy he was.

And that's who he was most interested in talking to as long as he was in Russia.

And he did a spectacular interview, but he also stuck to his guns on the other stuff.

We also had some fun with his former colleagues at NBC who were up on the roof of our hotel having a much more lavish meal than we were having down in our workroom.

(LAUGHTER) LINDA WINSLOW: And Robin managed to go up there and catch some free caviar for all of us, which I will be always grateful to him for.

(LAUGHTER) GEOFF BENNETT: Well, help us understand the working relationship and the friendship he shared with Jim Lehrer.

LINDA WINSLOW: It was truly unique.

And that's, I think, one of the things that resonated with everybody I have talked to today.

Because of their friendship, they created an atmosphere of respect for each other and having each other's backs.

There was never any concern about being knifed in the back by your colleague or colleagues.

And, as a result, we worked in an environment where we respected the audience, as he said in that piece Jeff just showed us, and respected each other and respected the staff, as well as the news and the newsmakers and guests who came on the program.

Everyone was treated equally.

GEOFF BENNETT: Yes.

Jeff Brown, tell us more about the early days, what it was like working alongside Jim and Robin.

JEFFREY BROWN: Well, the thing that really strikes me, I want to refer to that memoir that Robin wrote called "Wordstruck."

That was Robin.

Robin was wordstruck.

It was even his e-mail address.

The man was besotted with words.

He loved writing them.

He loved speaking them.

He loved the history of them.

He loved the geography of them, and, therefore, those two wonderful documentaries he did about the story of English and American.

And that showed up in the journalism.

I mean, if you're a person who loves to go out into the world and you're interested in all kinds of things and want to tell stories, and then you have this capacity to use words to write them and tell those stories, and then you have this incredible voice -- I remember Jim would always say -- he certainly said it to me -- that Robin could read the phone book, right, and make it sound like great literature, which was true.

(LAUGHTER) JUDY WOODRUFF: Yes.

JEFFREY BROWN: But he also had the ability to use words to practically turn journalism into a kind of literature.

And that -- you asked about what it was like working with him.

That's what it was like, because you kind of saw that interest in the world, but also the ability to convey it.

And I think, when I talk to people, when I think about the impact on my own life and I hope my own work, that's what comes through, is that love of telling stories, that love of using words, and that love of reaching out to talk to people that way.

GEOFF BENNETT: Judy, Amna is traveling on assignment today, but we traded messages earlier about how Robin's influence, his sober approach to the news, the pursuit of truth above all else, how that is really evident in the work that we do.

As we wrap up this conversation, I'd like to invite you to weigh in on that.

How is his legacy manifest in this program even today?

JUDY WOODRUFF: It is manifest in so many ways, Geoff.

I'm glad -- I'm not at all surprised to hear that you and Amna were trading messages about it, as she's, you said, overseas.

Robin just exuded the kind of excellence in journalism, the belief that journalism can make a difference, the belief, frankly, that journalists shouldn't take too -- ourselves too seriously.

He - - I can't tell you the number of times I would be talking to him, and he'd remind me that journalism is about the stories that we're covering and not about the person doing the reporting.

And that's been such an important part of, I think, the "NewsHour" ethos, that we are about - - the "NewsHour" is about reporting on the most important things that are happening and sharing that with the American people, sharing that with our audience.

Robin believed that to his very core.

He had the kind of integrity that you just -- you just -- you have to imagine in many ways today.

It was a -- he set an example that, just by his being there, just by his doing his job, the rest of us knew that that was the gold standard.

And he was supportive always of the rest of us.

And I always knew that Robin had my back.

And, as Jeff has mentioned, the chemistry that he and Jim had together, it was this I call it kind of a magic pixie dust that made the program what it is and that will make this -- make sure that this is a program that endures for a long, long time to come.

GEOFF BENNETT: Judy Woodruff, Jeffrey Brown, Linda Winslow, our thanks to each of you for sharing your memories and special connections to Robin MacNeil.

We appreciate it.

And, as we mourn his loss, we invite you to share your memories of Robert MacNeil on our Web site.

That's PBS.org/NewsHour.

David Brooks, Ruth Marcus GEOFF BENNETT: And we're going to shift our focus now to a busy week in politics, as a major abortion decision out of Arizona weighs on the minds of some voters and Republicans on Capitol Hill navigate their agenda with influence from Donald Trump.

For more, we're joined tonight by New York Times columnist David Brooks and Ruth Marcus, associate editor for The Washington Post.

RUTH MARCUS, Associate Editor, The Washington Post: Hi.

GEOFF BENNETT: Thank you both for being here.

So, Vice President Kamala Harris is in Arizona tonight highlighting reproductive rights just days after that state's Supreme Court ruled that a near-total abortion ban from 1864 is enforceable.

Here's a bit of what she said.

KAMALA HARRIS, Vice President of the United States: Overturning Roe was just the opening act, just the opening act of a larger strategy to take women's rights and freedoms, part of a full-on attack state by state on reproductive freedom.

And we all must understand who is to blame.

Former President Donald Trump did this.

GEOFF BENNETT: So, Ruth, what do you make of this aggressive strategy by the Biden campaign to keep the abortion issue in the spotlight and pin Donald Trump as the architect of abortion restrictions in bans like the one in Arizona?

RUTH MARCUS: I think it's doubly smart.

Abortion is the gift, and this is an odd way to say it, but it keeps on giving politically for Democrats.

It's an odd way to say it, because, obviously, removing abortion rights from American women has affected many women's lives and caused a lot of damage.

But, politically, for Democrats, it has been, I think, beyond their wildest dreams.

And they keep getting help from states who do crazy things, in particular from conservative state Supreme Courts, like we saw in Alabama with the IVF case, like we saw in Florida, where they cleared the way for a six-week ban, and like we saw this week in Arizona with a very draconian ban.

And so I think it is clear that voters are not happy with things this extreme, and it is perfectly fair to put a lot of this on Donald Trump's lap.

And if I were Democrats, I would be asking him questions like, OK, if you are president, will you enforce the Comstock Act and stop abortion that way?

If you were president, would you remove mifepristone, the abortion pill, from being able to be marketed?

Those are really good questions and hard for him to answer.

GEOFF BENNETT: Well, what about that, David?

Because even Donald Trump is implicitly acknowledging that this is a problem, because he said that the Arizona State Supreme Court went too far and that the law, in his words, needs to be straightened out.

DAVID BROOKS: Yes, well, this is a phenomenal shift in the Republican Party we saw this week.

Since Ronald Reagan, the Republican Party has been a pro-life party.

It's been based on the conviction that, from conception, it's a human life.

It's a human life.

And then you get Donald Trump.

And, recently, he's been floating the idea that we should have a 15-week ban or a 20-week ban.

In other words, he's for allowing a law that has 93 -- or some 90 percent of the abortions would go forward, and he's allegedly pro-life.

Now he's sort of backed off that position.

His position is, it should be state by state.

But he won't tell people how they should vote.

He says, follow your heart.

This is literally the most pro-choice position a Republican has taken since Ronald Reagan, going back to Jerry Ford maybe.

And so you're seeing the party bend to the political winds.

And it's just an astonishing turnaround.

And the thing that astonishes me, the pro-life groups, they should be really, I guess it's appropriate to say raising holy hell.

But they're sort of going along with it.

And it shows that -- the power of Trump over the party.

Let's protect Donald Trump, even above some of the core convictions.

Will it shift election, the presidential election?

I'm not so sure.

I think it's definitely helped Democrats in House races and it's definitely helped Democrats in every ballot initiative since Dobbs.

But if you look at people in Arizona say, what are the issues they care about?

Inflation and immigration are number one and two, and they vastly prefer Donald Trump.

Abortion is in there, but it's down below.

So will it affect the -- it'll certainly drive Democratic turnout, but will it shift toward Donald Trump?

I'm not sure, since the two big issues, he's pretty good on.

GEOFF BENNETT: What do you think about that?

RUTH MARCUS: Two words, suburban women.

We -- this is going to be a game of inches in the presidential election, and inches in particular states.

And so when you have things like this, when you have young people who might not be that enthusiastic about getting out to vote for President Biden, this could get them off their couches and into the polls.

DAVID BROOKS: It could be.

Arizona was super, super close.

RUTH MARCUS: I want to say one quick thing about the concept of the 15- or 16-week ban.

This is a crock, because, at least the way the anti-abortion groups have peddled it, it would be a ceiling.

You couldn't have abortion after that.

But it would still leave Arizona to Arizona and South Dakota to South Dakota and have complete bans.

So that sounds a lot better than it is in practice, from my point of view.

GEOFF BENNETT: Well, House Speaker Mike Johnson, the country's most powerful elected Republican, he -- who is trying to save his job, which is under threat from Trump-aligned members of Congress, he was actually at Mar-a-Lago today standing alongside the former president.

The two are apparently teaming up to promote a bill to keep noncitizens from voting in federal elections, although we should say it's already illegal for noncitizens to vote in federal elections.

What should we make of their appearance today, Ruth?

RUTH MARCUS: Well, they kind of need each other, but one needs -- Johnson needs Trump more than he needs Johnson.

And he is in a very, very shaky situation.

If Donald Trump were to cast a baleful eye on him and want him out, he would be gone in a nanosecond.

You can see this in the impact on the FISA bill, which limped across the finish line in a slower way.

You can see this with Ukraine aid.

You can see it on a day-to-day basis.

So this is just a sort of silly dog-and-pony show, as you say, to suggest that -- first of all, that there is some huge problem -- there isn't -- of people who aren't authorized to vote voting.

People just want to make it harder to vote who don't think voters are going to go in their direction.

But this is a team that will last together as long as it is in Donald Trump's interest for it to last, and no longer.

GEOFF BENNETT: Well, the former president in his public remarks seemed to nod to Speaker Johnson's political problems.

Take a look.

DONALD TRUMP, Former President of the United States (R) and Current U.S. Presidential Candidate: We're getting along very well with the speaker.

It's not an easy situation for any speaker.

I think he's doing a very good job.

He's doing about as good as you're going to do.

And I'm sure that Marjorie understands that.

She's a very good friend of mine.

And I know she has a lot of respect for the speaker.

GEOFF BENNETT: So, when Donald Trump says Marjorie, he's referring, of course, to Marjorie Taylor Greene, the congresswoman who issued that motion to vacate.

Interestingly, Politico reported that it was Speaker Johnson's office that requested this appearance.

It wasn't the Trump campaign's or the Trump team's idea.

What do you - - what's your assessment of this?

DAVID BROOKS: Well, I think they understand you have to massage Donald Trump and say -- be nice to him, so he will be nice to you.

So they're trying to do the flattery thing.

But their interests are fundamentally misaligned.

Trump benefits every time something goes bad in Washington.

And it's to his detriment every time something goes nicely in Washington.

And so Johnson wants to pass stuff, and they're fundamentally misaligned.

I have to give Johnson some credit.

He's still hanging in there in Ukraine, which to me is the number one thing he needs to do is to get that vote to the floor.

And he's still working with the Biden administration.

And I think they're going to get there.

And that -- I give him credit and respect for doing that, against Donald Trump's influence.

GEOFF BENNETT: It's interesting that you raised that because I was texting with some Republican sources today who said that standing next to Donald Trump gives him cover to bring Ukraine to the floor and also keep his job.

Do you buy that?

RUTH MARCUS: Maybe.

Marjorie, I'm sure, has a lot of respect for him.

We will see how long that assertion lasts.

(LAUGHTER) DAVID BROOKS: Yes.

RUTH MARCUS: I do think that there's one way in which they are aligned in the right way, which is, if Donald Trump becomes president, he needs to have a Republican House.

And so to the -- I understand your -- I take your point about chaos in Washington is good for Donald Trump, but too much chaos in the House is not so good for a future President Trump.

DAVID BROOKS: That's fair.

GEOFF BENNETT: Well, there could be some chaos in New York City on Monday, because that will be the start of Donald Trump's criminal trial.

He faces 34 felony charges for falsifying business records stemming from a $130,000 payment during the 2016 presidential campaign to adult film star Stormy Daniels.

What will you be watching for as this case begins and progresses?

DAVID BROOKS: I guess Donald Trump's prefrontal cortex.

(LAUGHTER) DAVID BROOKS: I want to know how much self-control he has.

And so he's going to be in there.

A lot of people he doesn't like are going to be testifying right in front of him.

He's going to be tempted to storm out.

He's going to be tempted to scream.

And that will alienate the jury and the judge.

And so I'm more watching to see how he comports himself.

GEOFF BENNETT: We have seen Donald Trump actually benefit politically from all of these legal troubles.

Does that -- will this change?

Will the resonance and the impact change now that this is a criminal trial, the first of four that is actually getting under way?

RUTH MARCUS: I have a complicated answer to that question.

This is a case that makes me the most nervous for kind of for the reason that you say.

It is the shakiest case legally.

It's a case about falsification of business records that doesn't quite have the resonance of interfering with an election or obstructing justice and mishandling classified information.

It involves some serious things.

Trump tried to keep salient information from voters at a time when he was in potential trouble because of the "Access Hollywood" tape.

But I do think that, when you see a criminal trial and, in particular, if we do see a criminal conviction, which is more likely than not -- this is a Manhattan jury -- that that really could have an impact in a way that Trump has not been used to.

The criminal charges against him, he won't look as much of a victim as he will look if he's convicted like a felon.

GEOFF BENNETT: How do you see it?

DAVID BROOKS: I think it's more or less - - I wish this case were not going first, because it may -- the stronger cases are further down the line.

But I -- there are polls clearly show, people say, if he's convicted, a significant sense - - chunk say, I will not vote for him.

I will believe it when I see it.

GEOFF BENNETT: All right, David Brooks and Ruth Marcus, appreciate you both.

DAVID BROOKS: Thank you.

GEOFF BENNETT: Remember, there's much more online, including a roundup of this week's political headlines on our weekly digital show.

That's on our YouTube page.

And be sure to tune into "Washington Week With The Atlantic" tonight for analysis of how abortion politics is dominating the 2024 election cycle and how Republicans are navigating this week's Arizona Supreme Court ruling.

And on "PBS News Weekend": as the world's top golfers tee off at the Masters, a look back at the first African American golfer to play on the PGA Tour.

And that is the "NewsHour" for tonight.

I'm Geoff Bennett.

For all of us here at the "PBS NewsHour" - - actually, let's let Robin and Jim do it.

JIM LEHRER, Co-Founder and Former Anchor, "PBS NewsHour": Hey, Robin.

ROBERT MACNEIL, Co-Founder and Former Anchor, "PBS NewsHour": I guess that's it.

JIM LEHRER: Yes.

Hey, good night.

ROBERT MACNEIL: Good night, Jim.